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	<title>Comments on: Why Software Piracy Isn&#8217;t Theft</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.citizeneconomists.com/blogs/2008/10/24/why-software-piracy-isnt-theft/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.citizeneconomists.com/blogs/2008/10/24/why-software-piracy-isnt-theft/</link>
	<description>Citizen Economists is an online economics magazine written by citizen journalists. These ordinary citizens provide reports and commentary on the current events affecting the economics of the fields they work in.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 18 Mar 2010 18:10:48 -0400</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Jared Norberg</title>
		<link>http://www.citizeneconomists.com/blogs/2008/10/24/why-software-piracy-isnt-theft/comment-page-1/#comment-37448</link>
		<dc:creator>Jared Norberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 18:40:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.citizeneconomists.com/blogs/?p=346#comment-37448</guid>
		<description>Thank you, Jesse Forgione, for understanding the despicable system that&#039;s really at the bottom of the furor over pirating.

Thank you, Jal Park, for giving me a much simpler way of arguing it for those who don&#039;t have time to get into details right away.

Even if every song cost only $0.10 to &quot;own&quot; through the travesty of IP law, it would cost ~$2,000 to fill an 80GB iPod, to say nothing of one&#039;s own hard drive.

Anyone who is familiar with IP is invited to read a critique of it by one much more familiar with it than I:
http://c4ss.org/content/521</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you, Jesse Forgione, for understanding the despicable system that&#8217;s really at the bottom of the furor over pirating.</p>
<p>Thank you, Jal Park, for giving me a much simpler way of arguing it for those who don&#8217;t have time to get into details right away.</p>
<p>Even if every song cost only $0.10 to &#8220;own&#8221; through the travesty of IP law, it would cost ~$2,000 to fill an 80GB iPod, to say nothing of one&#8217;s own hard drive.</p>
<p>Anyone who is familiar with IP is invited to read a critique of it by one much more familiar with it than I:<br />
<a href="http://c4ss.org/content/521" rel="nofollow">http://c4ss.org/content/521</a></p>
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		<title>By: vesey</title>
		<link>http://www.citizeneconomists.com/blogs/2008/10/24/why-software-piracy-isnt-theft/comment-page-1/#comment-35051</link>
		<dc:creator>vesey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Feb 2010 06:11:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.citizeneconomists.com/blogs/?p=346#comment-35051</guid>
		<description>If you have to write an article this long to justify pirating then it&#039;s theft plain and simple..............</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you have to write an article this long to justify pirating then it&#8217;s theft plain and simple&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..</p>
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		<title>By: Jesse Forgione</title>
		<link>http://www.citizeneconomists.com/blogs/2008/10/24/why-software-piracy-isnt-theft/comment-page-1/#comment-28625</link>
		<dc:creator>Jesse Forgione</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jan 2010 21:25:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.citizeneconomists.com/blogs/?p=346#comment-28625</guid>
		<description>Not only does the absence of scarcity render the concept of &quot;owning&quot; ideas, methods or patterns invalid (like in the example of the candle), but to the extent that IP laws are enforced, real property rights are negated.

(The person who made the absurd comparison to rape ignores the fact that what makes something a violation is physical invasion.)

Owning intellectual property amounts to owning one or more possible uses for physical property.
For any given piece of physical property, the more of it&#039;s possible uses are owned by others, the less it&#039;s owner is free to use it. He may only use his physical property in ways that remain unclaimed or in ways that he himself owns (which others who own similar property may not use without his permission). If we followed IP to it&#039;s extreme conclusion where all possible uses are owned, we would reach the state where no two people could make the same type of use of similar physical property without one getting the permission of the other. If someone owned a piece of physical property, but none of it&#039;s possible uses, he could not be said to own it in any meaningful way.

In principle, to own a method or pattern is to have a degree of control over all the physical property that exists. To the degree that the various possible uses of others&#039; property can be owned, those others are not it&#039;s owners.

Let&#039;s imagine I use my own materials to build a house of my own design. You, my neighbor, own similar materials, and seeing my method of building, you imitate my design for your own house. Now either I am justified in knocking your house apart to take back my intellectual property or I&#039;m not. If IP is valid you have stolen my pattern and I should take steps to get it back. If IP is not valid than I&#039;m a vandal violating your property rights. But we can&#039;t both be right. Either I control the pattern you arrange your property in, or you do. If it&#039;s the former, than you cannot really be said to be &quot;owning&quot; your physical property. This would amount to the fascist model where there is nominal private property but the state controls what can be done with it, rendering the &quot;ownership&quot; meaningless.

Also, there&#039;s no reason in principle that IP couldn&#039;t be applied to broader, more general or more obvious ideas. What if I owned not just the design of a specific car, but the very idea of a car? ...or the very idea of mechanical transportation? ...or the wheel? The difference is only in degree.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not only does the absence of scarcity render the concept of &#8220;owning&#8221; ideas, methods or patterns invalid (like in the example of the candle), but to the extent that IP laws are enforced, real property rights are negated.</p>
<p>(The person who made the absurd comparison to rape ignores the fact that what makes something a violation is physical invasion.)</p>
<p>Owning intellectual property amounts to owning one or more possible uses for physical property.<br />
For any given piece of physical property, the more of it&#8217;s possible uses are owned by others, the less it&#8217;s owner is free to use it. He may only use his physical property in ways that remain unclaimed or in ways that he himself owns (which others who own similar property may not use without his permission). If we followed IP to it&#8217;s extreme conclusion where all possible uses are owned, we would reach the state where no two people could make the same type of use of similar physical property without one getting the permission of the other. If someone owned a piece of physical property, but none of it&#8217;s possible uses, he could not be said to own it in any meaningful way.</p>
<p>In principle, to own a method or pattern is to have a degree of control over all the physical property that exists. To the degree that the various possible uses of others&#8217; property can be owned, those others are not it&#8217;s owners.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s imagine I use my own materials to build a house of my own design. You, my neighbor, own similar materials, and seeing my method of building, you imitate my design for your own house. Now either I am justified in knocking your house apart to take back my intellectual property or I&#8217;m not. If IP is valid you have stolen my pattern and I should take steps to get it back. If IP is not valid than I&#8217;m a vandal violating your property rights. But we can&#8217;t both be right. Either I control the pattern you arrange your property in, or you do. If it&#8217;s the former, than you cannot really be said to be &#8220;owning&#8221; your physical property. This would amount to the fascist model where there is nominal private property but the state controls what can be done with it, rendering the &#8220;ownership&#8221; meaningless.</p>
<p>Also, there&#8217;s no reason in principle that IP couldn&#8217;t be applied to broader, more general or more obvious ideas. What if I owned not just the design of a specific car, but the very idea of a car? &#8230;or the very idea of mechanical transportation? &#8230;or the wheel? The difference is only in degree.</p>
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		<title>By: rianoor</title>
		<link>http://www.citizeneconomists.com/blogs/2008/10/24/why-software-piracy-isnt-theft/comment-page-1/#comment-22860</link>
		<dc:creator>rianoor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Nov 2009 01:10:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.citizeneconomists.com/blogs/?p=346#comment-22860</guid>
		<description>All are amazing, i am very confuse which one to select but i have 2 PCs and 1 laptop at my home so i will install 5 to each.Thanks for sharing nice list.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All are amazing, i am very confuse which one to select but i have 2 PCs and 1 laptop at my home so i will install 5 to each.Thanks for sharing nice list.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon</title>
		<link>http://www.citizeneconomists.com/blogs/2008/10/24/why-software-piracy-isnt-theft/comment-page-1/#comment-21606</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 15:26:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.citizeneconomists.com/blogs/?p=346#comment-21606</guid>
		<description>Copyright theft:

Removing the right of a copyright owner to profit from their property.

You use a narrow-minded, narrow description of words and twist it to try to find some intelligent insight, completely ignoring the fact that the law doesn&#039;t say anything about taking a program.

Fail.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Copyright theft:</p>
<p>Removing the right of a copyright owner to profit from their property.</p>
<p>You use a narrow-minded, narrow description of words and twist it to try to find some intelligent insight, completely ignoring the fact that the law doesn&#8217;t say anything about taking a program.</p>
<p>Fail.</p>
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		<title>By: legal=simple?</title>
		<link>http://www.citizeneconomists.com/blogs/2008/10/24/why-software-piracy-isnt-theft/comment-page-1/#comment-21460</link>
		<dc:creator>legal=simple?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Oct 2009 23:52:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.citizeneconomists.com/blogs/?p=346#comment-21460</guid>
		<description>You say that it is difficult to pirate software.  This seems completely bizarre to me.  Recently I had access to a completely legal copy of windows xp and an illegal version.  Trying to turn over a new leaf I installed the legal version and used its code.  It would not activate.  after spending 4 days with customer service (who barely spoke english) I gave up formatted my drive and installed the illegal version.  40 minutes later (the install time) it was running perfectly and fully activated.  

Your argument is not valid because atleast 75% of the time it is easier to acquire software illegaly than it is to just pay for it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You say that it is difficult to pirate software.  This seems completely bizarre to me.  Recently I had access to a completely legal copy of windows xp and an illegal version.  Trying to turn over a new leaf I installed the legal version and used its code.  It would not activate.  after spending 4 days with customer service (who barely spoke english) I gave up formatted my drive and installed the illegal version.  40 minutes later (the install time) it was running perfectly and fully activated.  </p>
<p>Your argument is not valid because atleast 75% of the time it is easier to acquire software illegaly than it is to just pay for it.</p>
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		<title>By: Chime In</title>
		<link>http://www.citizeneconomists.com/blogs/2008/10/24/why-software-piracy-isnt-theft/comment-page-1/#comment-21459</link>
		<dc:creator>Chime In</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Oct 2009 23:33:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.citizeneconomists.com/blogs/?p=346#comment-21459</guid>
		<description>Why would I want to pay for something that I can never own? 

Also some arguments against piracy says it&#039;s bad because the authors never see a cent from the copy that you now have. Then those same people should be against used cd/game/movie/book stores, not to mention libraries.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why would I want to pay for something that I can never own? </p>
<p>Also some arguments against piracy says it&#8217;s bad because the authors never see a cent from the copy that you now have. Then those same people should be against used cd/game/movie/book stores, not to mention libraries.</p>
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		<title>By: Volly</title>
		<link>http://www.citizeneconomists.com/blogs/2008/10/24/why-software-piracy-isnt-theft/comment-page-1/#comment-20053</link>
		<dc:creator>Volly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 00:39:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.citizeneconomists.com/blogs/?p=346#comment-20053</guid>
		<description>Here is a simple way to look at it. Your a guy. You rape a girl. Technically, did you physically take something? No you didn&#039;t. Did you take something mentally from her? Yes. You can&#039;t put your hand on it, but you did take something that you can never give back.

When you steal software, you are losing site over the most important thing. Only the author OWNS the software. When you buy a CD, you are buying the right to PLAY IT. Not to own it outright. 
 
You will never get the right to own software outright. You are buying the right to USE it. Not own it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here is a simple way to look at it. Your a guy. You rape a girl. Technically, did you physically take something? No you didn&#8217;t. Did you take something mentally from her? Yes. You can&#8217;t put your hand on it, but you did take something that you can never give back.</p>
<p>When you steal software, you are losing site over the most important thing. Only the author OWNS the software. When you buy a CD, you are buying the right to PLAY IT. Not to own it outright. </p>
<p>You will never get the right to own software outright. You are buying the right to USE it. Not own it.</p>
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		<title>By: Seen it</title>
		<link>http://www.citizeneconomists.com/blogs/2008/10/24/why-software-piracy-isnt-theft/comment-page-1/#comment-19975</link>
		<dc:creator>Seen it</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Sep 2009 02:14:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.citizeneconomists.com/blogs/?p=346#comment-19975</guid>
		<description>I bought Jail House Rock by Elvis on a 78, 45, 33 album,  8 track, cassette, and CD.  I think I&#039;m the one getting ripped off, not the record companies.  How many  years is a song and movie copyrighted these day, even if it were a million, they would want and get an extension.  Of course the singer or actors would never see any of the royalty fees, the record companies would just pocket most of it. (like now).  Also, 99 cents for a download from a server ? Whats&#039; that 95 cents profit, and still they complain.  Everything you need to see, hear or read is at the library, your taxes paid for it, use it !</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I bought Jail House Rock by Elvis on a 78, 45, 33 album,  8 track, cassette, and CD.  I think I&#8217;m the one getting ripped off, not the record companies.  How many  years is a song and movie copyrighted these day, even if it were a million, they would want and get an extension.  Of course the singer or actors would never see any of the royalty fees, the record companies would just pocket most of it. (like now).  Also, 99 cents for a download from a server ? Whats&#8217; that 95 cents profit, and still they complain.  Everything you need to see, hear or read is at the library, your taxes paid for it, use it !</p>
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		<title>By: Garrett</title>
		<link>http://www.citizeneconomists.com/blogs/2008/10/24/why-software-piracy-isnt-theft/comment-page-1/#comment-19964</link>
		<dc:creator>Garrett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Sep 2009 21:42:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.citizeneconomists.com/blogs/?p=346#comment-19964</guid>
		<description>Matt -- &quot;...with the intention to permanently deprive&quot;
 umm... doesn&#039;t that means the original owner doesn&#039;t have access to it anymore? If it is copied, the owner still has it therefore, by your own definition, it is not theft.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt &#8212; &#8220;&#8230;with the intention to permanently deprive&#8221;<br />
 umm&#8230; doesn&#8217;t that means the original owner doesn&#8217;t have access to it anymore? If it is copied, the owner still has it therefore, by your own definition, it is not theft.</p>
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